Curse

Adraeus · Jul 14, 2005, 07:00 AM // 07:00

The consensus model (i.e., everyone must be in favor for some behavior for some action to take place) should not be applied to the skipping of cinematics. If a player wants to skip a cutscene, allow that player to skip and continue with the game, along with other players who also want to skip. Any player who does not skip the cinematic may then watch without infringing on the experience of the other players. The player who is still watching the cutscene while the other players are playing the game would have his/her character name in the Party dialog dimmed in a different color other than the standard gray. This player would also not appear in the game until playback of the cutscene is complete or the player skips the cinematic.

Sir Maddox · Jul 14, 2005, 07:12 AM // 07:12

And then players would find themselves either:

A) Left behind by their party because they chose to watch the cut scene
B) Missing out in XP/Items because they chose to watch the cut scene
C) Having to wait for half the party watching the cut scene, anyway
D) Having to wait for cut-scene after effects to begin after the scene anyway, as in the Great Northern Wall mission.

I don't really see what the problem is here. If you REALLY dislike waiting the 3 minutes or less it takes to watch a cut scene, use Henchmen, or establish rules when picking up a PUG. Most of the time, if half the party wants to skip, then the other half will be "peer pressured" into it. This system is problematic and would not only fail to fix the "problem" but create more in the process.

Only near the end of the game do the cut scenes get longer and more tedious. It's part of the game. Let us lump it in that all inclusive category of negativitity we so fondly have named "Grind."

Imp · Jul 14, 2005, 07:19 AM // 07:19

But but.. I like the horrible voice acting!

telarin · Jul 14, 2005, 07:36 AM // 07:36

If you ever noticed, if you see mobs attacking you in the cutscene, it happens in real time, i.e. you lose health from the attacks. the cutscenes are played out with your in game character acting, so if you decided to skip the cutscene and go off (if you can actually do it), other's watching to cutscene will see you running off in the movie. And if you happen to be the leader, who's gonna do all the pointing and talking. heh, i think programming wise it's not that easy to implement.

Rhunex · Jul 14, 2005, 07:39 AM // 07:39

Why would you play an RPG if you do not want to view the lovely plot thickening cut scenes? And if you say something like "Well, I've seen it a hundred times...and it's gotten boring" then I should suggest you try out some golden oldies like Actraiser, FFI-X(because every other numbered FF sucks beyond belief) The 7th Sage, etc. Or if you don't have consoles THAT old...try Donkey Kong, Mario 64, etc...

Or you could play some of those newer "PS2" RPG's like Dark Cloud 1&2, Xenosaga(has over 24 hours of cutscenes though!) Shadow Hearts 1&Covenant(very nice character models in them

)

Or you can just quit complaining all together that your RPG experience is slower than you would like, especially compared to something fast like an FPS...

Adraeus · Jul 14, 2005, 08:20 AM // 08:20

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Originally Posted by Sir Maddox

A) Left behind by their party because they chose to watch the cut scene

Players wouldn't be left behind when they're teleported to a safe location nearby the continuing party, if the continuing party has travelled a great distance. Or, players who skip the cutscene could be prevented from travelling a great distance until the other party members finish with the cinematic.

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B) Missing out in XP/Items because they chose to watch the cut scene

...and players in other instances are missing out on experience and items gained and acquired in your instance, right? If a player chooses not to skip a cutscene, they inherently chose not to play the game for the time they continue watching the cutscene. For that time, it seems fair to me for that player to "miss out" on experience and items while they were technically AFK.

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C) Having to wait for half the party watching the cut scene, anyway

This probably wouldn't happen unless the party members who are watching the cinematics are headstrong, are not swayed by the incentive to skip (i.e., to play, gain experience, acquire items, and progress through a mission with a party), and/or are really away from the keyboard. In the latter case, a party would want to wait for a key member to return from away status anyway. Moreover, I'd rather be in control of my character and be able to dance or run around bored instead of muting the sound and falling asleep.

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D) Having to wait for cut-scene after effects to begin after the scene anyway, as in the Great Northern Wall mission.

Solution: don't use cinematics as event triggers. Use time. Or, even better, if the party majority votes to skip, the cinematic that triggers an event is skipped regardless of what the minority wanted. And worse, but fair, cinematics which trigger events should be based on a consensus model. Other cinematics which don't trigger events should not, however.

By the way, setting party "rules", and even politely requesting that cinematics be skipped, rarely works because there's usually that one player who either a) genuinely likes the cinematics, b) is a newbie and feels obligated to watch the cinematic for the first time, or c) purposely doesn't skip the cinematic to be a jerk. Party "rules" cannot be enforced and, thus, do not ensure compliance. To use your "use henchmen" cop-out in a different way, hey, if you want to watch a cinematic, watch it on your own time!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhunex

Why would you play an RPG if you do not want to view the lovely plot thickening cut scenes?

Who are you to tell me what my experience should encompass? Only poor design produces poor functionality. The "Skip" function is poorly designed, poorly implemented, and infringes on the experience of other players. Call it "complaining" if you want, but ultimately, comments regarding what players think is fun and not fun are solicited for in the Suggestions forum and during internal testing. For example, during the Everquest 2 pre-beta and beta stages, mandatory 1-hour play sessions of the game were required throughout SOE. The objective of these sessions was to produce general feedback on the experience. In fact, SOE went even farther by internally providing a mailing list where "savagely brutal honesty" was encouraged in order to a) get to the root of gaming problems and b) to thicken the skins of the developers for when they read message boards. So please, don't tell me what my experience should encompass and especially don't tell me to stop "complaining". By the way, "suggestion" is a term that more accurately describes what's actually done in this forum.

none · Jul 14, 2005, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

b) is a newbie and feels obligated to watch the cinematic for the first time

If he's a newbie, and hasn't ever seen the cinematic, then there's absolutely no reason for others to complain or bitch around, although most people act like this is some kind of crime. In fact, everytime I'm in a mission and 1 or 2 didn't skip the cutscene, and others started complaining, I clearly state that it's absolutely okay for those that don't know them to watch them. And I know that Newbies are on board, I even won't skip the cinematic myself, so that they don't feel pressed to skip (although they would like to see it). This is no majority - minority thing. If you don't want to see cutscenes, then don't play missions. If you are playing through the game with another character you want to progress, then you play the storyline, and the cutscenes are part of that. I much rather have people watching cutscenes, than those asking at Ring of Fire what the hell happened to them and what everything was about.

Adraeus · Jul 14, 2005, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by none

If he's a newbie, and hasn't ever seen the cinematic, then there's absolutely no reason for others to complain or bitch around, although most people act like this is some kind of crime.

If the player is a newbie and hasn't ever seen the cinematic, then the other players who have seen the cinematic and don't want to see it again should be able to continue their experience without being halted to wait for some newbie to catch up.

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In fact, everytime I'm in a mission and 1 or 2 didn't skip the cutscene, and others started complaining, I clearly state that it's absolutely okay for those that don't know them to watch them.

...and I completely disagree. It is not "absolutely okay" for anyone to infringe on the gaming experience of other players. If it were okay, then godmode should be allowed. In fact, let's allow bots too. Inflation of the market with bot-acquired money? Sure! Why not!? After all, it's "absolutely okay" for everyone to have an experience unbounded by rules and consideration, right?

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This is no majority - minority thing.

Philosophy. For the good of the majority must the benefit of the minority be sacrificed; however, as I said previously, workarounds should not be relied upon when there is a viable solution to a design problem.

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If you don't want to see cutscenes, then don't play missions.

Cinematics aren't necessary to the progression of the game. Missions are though. Your suggestion is ridiculous. Unwanted cutscenes halt the players' progression whether they like it or not. Halting players' experiences is a no-no in good game design, especially when players are forced into bad experiences or repetition.

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If you are playing through the game with another character you want to progress, then you play the storyline, and the cutscenes are part of that.

Have you ever played through the entire game? There is no rational reason for forcing experienced and ascended players to watch poorly produced cutscenes umpteenth times. If NCsoft is concerned with keeping veteran players playing the game, which due to the static story is getting staler and staler for many, they'll at least re-implement the "Skip" option to attempt to fit the principles of user interaction.

Schorny · Jul 14, 2005, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Does Teamwork mean anything to you?

Sorry, the whole idea is just stupid.

Let me point it out:
You are so focused on yourself that you can't see the reason for the current system.

First of all: technically you act in the cutscenes, so, if the leader skips, whose going to act?

Second: You are punishing people for playing the game the way it is intended. You shall watch those cinematics. If you have watched it before - yeah, go and skip it - or just don't listen to it. You cannot play the mission on your own. If all but 1 guy will skip, this 1 guy will be left behind. That is a punishment.

What if you are the only one to skip: you can't do anything. So why not watch the movie? It really doesn't matter.

You also have to wait for the event to be triggered, so most of the time you will stand for a closed gate or something...

A team shall stay as a team - your proposal would split the team - that can't be good.

Ashley Twig · Jul 14, 2005, 12:11 PM // 12:11

I like the cutscenes. I would just like to know who skipped, and who didn't.

Old Dood · Jul 14, 2005, 12:31 PM // 12:31

I just wish we could "chat" while in the cutscene. I do not care if someone wants to see it for the first time. That is thier privilage. I just want to get out of the scene like many others have stated because we are getting hammered by left over monsters. Otherwise, I never bitch at anyone for wanting to stay in the cutscene to see it. It is a good time to take a break, light up a smoke, make a quick(I mean QUICK) rest room run.

Nothing worst then here someone gripe and complain after the cutscene on WHO DIDN'T CLICK SKIP?

Shamblemonkee · Jul 14, 2005, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Er, the cutscenes progress the story and usually explain what is happening, or what is required of you. Hardly what I'd call an infringement on your time.

The only time you might skip them is if you're re-doing amission with a PUG i.e Thirsty River, and in that case you wouldn't want someone new to the mission skipping the CS and having no idea what to do and neither would you want the rest of the party ploughing on a teamamte down.

All you've presented after you're initial post is a lot of hot air and and egotistical me first me first whining in addition to derision of the ability to skip a cutscene if there is a majority vote to do it, by calling it poor design.

Azreal911 · Jul 14, 2005, 12:52 PM // 12:52

skipping cutscenes cause of majority would be a really dumb idea cause then you ruin it for the people who are playing it for the first time spent like 1 hr playing just to get the whole story line skipped and end up fighting something that they had no clue about or are teleported back to town already. Like is your experience totally ruined cause of those 3 minutes!?!? 3 minutes!?? if so then those people should try another hobby and practices the virtue of patience.

Sir Maddox · Jul 14, 2005, 01:03 PM // 13:03

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If a player chooses not to skip a cutscene, they inherently chose not to play the game for the time they continue watching the cutscene. For that time, it seems fair to me for that player to "miss out" on experience and items while they were technically AFK.

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It is not "absolutely okay" for anyone to infringe on the gaming experience of other players.

I see a contradiction here.

So you're telling me, that it's "Fair" for them to miss out, because you feel your gaming experience is infringed upon..by them wanting to watch a cut scene. So, you take away 'their' gaming experience, for the sake of yours.

It's contradictory. If you really have such an issue, do it with Henchmen. Otherwise, this isn't a viable solution.

And in the end, "Technically AFK" would mean they got up and left the computer. Somebody watching a cut scene is anything but AFK. To say they are AFK is an uninformed err.

Sir Maddox · Jul 14, 2005, 01:17 PM // 13:17

A solution I could think of? Seperate districts between those that have done the Mission and those that haven't. Those that have done the Mission, seeing as they've ALL had a chance to watch, won't have any cutscenes, and those that haven't, will continue on as is. Might also help balance out parties, and quell rushing of lowbies. This way, you'd only have to watch, at max, 4 times, unless you delete/remake.

Shamblemonkee · Jul 14, 2005, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Sir Maddox's suggestion is the most fair so far but I feel even that is not a good change. It would further split already divided districts in the European World.

I think this is making a mountain out of a molehill and not even worth discussing anymore

Xue Yi Liang · Jul 14, 2005, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

Does Teamwork mean anything to you?

Sorry, the whole idea is just stupid.

Let me point it out:
You are so focused on yourself that you can't see the reason for the current system.

First of all: technically you act in the cutscenes, so, if the leader skips, whose going to act?

Second: You are punishing people for playing the game the way it is intended. You shall watch those cinematics. If you have watched it before - yeah, go and skip it - or just don't listen to it. You cannot play the mission on your own. If all but 1 guy will skip, this 1 guy will be left behind. That is a punishment.

What if you are the only one to skip: you can't do anything. So why not watch the movie? It really doesn't matter.

You also have to wait for the event to be triggered, so most of the time you will stand for a closed gate or something...

A team shall stay as a team - your proposal would split the team - that can't be good.

Well said.
A player who thinks it's no big deal to move ahead without regard for one or more teammates reminds me of the type of player who charges enemies even when the plan was to pull them or who will attack even if monks are still "recharging" (and still gripe about not being healed/rezzed). Remember Leeroy Jenkins?

I'm not saying you're like that fella, Adreus. I'm just saying teamwork is an important part of the experience - even if it means sitting through one cutscene just to wait for the "newbie." I mean, if it's a problem then don't party with "newbies." It's not unusual to ask people if they've done the mission before.

bobrath · Jul 14, 2005, 02:36 PM // 14:36

If its really that important to you to have the cinematics skipped... then organize a group that agrees to skip them. State at the start, "we're skipping all movies, dont join if you're going to make us watch."

If you decide to join a random group for a mission, then just like you may have to deal with that uber noob warrior aggroing everything - well you may have to deal with someone that likes watching cinematics.

Eder · Jul 14, 2005, 05:00 PM // 17:00

I agree with bobrath. If the cutscenes really bother you that much, make sure everyone in your group agrees to skip them before starting the mission.

Making it not be a consensus model would be a bad idea. If someday, perhaps after another 25 tries, I beat Thunderhead Keep, I wouldn't want Ill N O O B Ill and his 6 clanmates to prevent me from watching the cutscene.

The majority may not care what's happening to the storyline, but I do - and I paid for those cutscenes.

baalzamonbarnes · Jul 14, 2005, 05:39 PM // 17:39

This thread is stupid. Just because someone is new to the game and wants to watch the cutscenes, you want to penalize them?

If you don't want to watch the cutscenes, then play with henches, or people you know have done the missions already. Stop whining.